avraoji,

 It was  a  pleasure to read ur comment. keep coming!

talking of poor people in modern India, there are poor people in all castes today in the modern society. To pander to one group alone is not a wise way to run the nation,
Exactly and perfectly true. But if you see some of the posts prior to the OBC issue you find that the Brahmins were portrayed as the perpetrators and instigators of all so called oppression against one particular section of society and the posts are so fiery that given a chance they would gladly roast all brahmins alive.And all of a sudden you find that after the dilution of reservations is certain , they have suddenly recollected that the brahmins after all were/are never rich by their profession and they never benefited by the caste system except respect to their occupation.,and the proposed obc were never oppressed and do not deserve  reservation. As you have stated, to select one particular section treating them as oppressed on illusory assumption that that particular section was only oppressed is contrary to reality , since these nascent castes and zamindari system started during the mogul period during which every caste suffered , true , I agree that the dalits were at a greater disadvantage due to their ancestral social history , but as you have said no single cluster of category should have been given preferential treatment based on only caste and  instead the poor class of all castes should have been taken into consideration which was not done due to obvious political manipulation and the reserved categories instead of being given proper and qualitative education supported by financial assistance were accorded the ludicrous catapult policy which niether help them nor the nation as a whole , but serves the purpose of politicians.,and the benefited once tasted the bonanza started enjoying it and forgot that unless they elevate themselves educationally the reservations would serve only the politicians and in fact harm them more, since without foundation an elevated person would not be able to sustain himself and would be a misfit.As you have rightly pointed out no caste shall be accorded these benefits on caste basis and all reservations shall cease and as an alternative all those who have been deprived of their legitimate rights as a citizen should have been brought up in qualitative schools exclusively so as to enable them to compete with others on equal footing with confidence and acquired knowledge, and this is the only long term solution to this problem.
I apologize for butting in.
regards
avrao1953.

hi jatin,
   true, it is all politics and nothing more. Pity is that plitics is played at the cost of  National welfare. Thanks and keep coming.
cheers

this move is politically motivated scribbly. i know a few general category families who earn much less than so called obc's. have a few south indian frends who told me that if u go to south india u'll find enuff general class families whose earnings are nothing as compared to north indian lower castes.
the reservation for me should have been based upon family earnings and not ur caste.
as the point was correctly pointed out, what happens to the basic school education. in a nation where only  12 pc of children reach college, theres no point providing reservation for only these 12 pc people. and the second question that comes is for how long can u provide reservations.

on a lighter note, scribbly dont be surprised if after few years u have reservations for general category.

As far as I am concerned, the communal congi-walas are giving this issue a communal bias making communal muslims and communal christians ever more richer, adding to their enormous wealth plundered from colonial savagery lasting nearly 900 years.  Clearly, this evil gang is prejudiced against the secular citizens - the soft targets of the neo-colonial plundering so devilishly demonized with so many generalized streotyping labels (especially the impoverished Brahmins).

Obviously, secularism means equality and equity irrespective of religion or caste  or gender which is now being maliciously denied to the secular public by the communal ruling party and their evil communal  minority gang.

"Any discrimination made on the basis of religion is communal and reservation in education on the basis of religion is no exception to this basic rule."  The non-violent Hindu dalits (Harijans) continue to be the oppressed and downtrodden under crippling poverty, while the savagely violent dalit muslims who have riot blood on their hands are about to be pandered even more!! 

I'd rather give soft loans to the dalit muslims if at all they are poor (which is not credible since they may not have been exploited by their own fellow muslims over the centuries when they got converted trusting to get socio-economic equality; it is quite unlikely they were devilishly betrayed or exploited by their rich islamic cousins).

I'd rather give more the Hindu dalits in terms of jobs, education, housing ..etc etc..

Munir bhai, your buddy arjun singh didnt get any money from the filthy rich arabs with crude oil but got a fatwa form a master to a slave to be obeyed blindly; read this-
#_____________________Govt wants SC stay vacated: Arjun
Press Trust of India
Posted online: Saturday, March 31, 2007 at 2024 hours IST
Arjun Singh New Delhi, March 31: Government will take all Constitutional measures to get the Supreme Court stay on the OBC quota in elite educational institutions vacated, HRD Minister Arjun Singh said on Saturday.

"Supreme Court has not rejected anything...We will take all Constitutional measures to vacate the stay", Singh told PTI adding that Additional Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam will be meeting him to discuss the issue.

The senior leader, however, made it clear that the Congress-led coalition did not want any confrontation with the apex Court and it was the right of the Court to interpret law.
#______________________________

Even way back in 19th Century, muslims in India had opposed opening of English Medium schools in muslim dominated areas, apprehending that this would dilute their culture and cause decadence in their society.

........a Christian founded College giving admission to a christian student with 44% marks and refusing admission to a Hindu student with 87% marks.  no Hindu Institute follows this precedent............

Reservation does not speak of equality it speaks of mercy. Reservation is a machiavellian politics which identifies communal muslims as a statistical 13% vote bank.

Some more relevant quotes-
#______________________#______________________
However, why has our definition of ‘underprivileged’ become so warped? Why does underprivileged have to mean lower caste or the minority segment?
I would like quote a relevant excerpt from a paper published by JNU Professor Pradipta Chaudhury that highlights the grave seriousness of the issue. The observation is for Uttar Pradesh, based on data available at the turn of the century:

'With respect to literacy rate, three OBCs, namely, Sonar, Halwai and Kalwar, were ahead of four high castes, namely, Rajput, Taga, Bhat and Kandu. Similarly, with respect to economic status, five OBCs, namely, Sonar, Jat, Gujar, Kisan and Mali, were better off than Brahman and Rajput, the two most numerous high castes, which accounted for one-fifth of the Hindu population. Two SCs, namely, Khatik and Dusadh, had higher literacy rates than many OBCs.'

What I would like to know is why such important facts are being ignored? What I would really want to ask all the economists, sociologists out there is why they are sitting quiet; why are they not getting the facts together and building a resistance against a move so regressive…

[Quote from 'supriyad']
#__________________________
RELEVANT NEWS ITEM-
Swamy to challenge quota for Muslims
Chennai, May 28 2007: Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy today said he would legally challenge any ordinance by the Tamil Nadu government to reserve quotas for Muslims and Christians in education.
In a statement here, he said Chief Minister M Karunanidhi's move in this regard was fraught with "dangerous consequences for the integrity of the nation." "I shall challenge it in court since it is unreasonable, arbitrary and mala fide," he said.

Swamy said reservations were meant only for those classes on whom society had imposed cultural and social disabilities.

Only SCs and STs, and that too the non-creamy layer (among them), were entitled to reservation, he said, adding, "all other classes can demand a world class primary and secondary educational system to empower and enable them to compete, but not reservation." #________________________________
Supreme Court’s judgment of 1992 in the Mandal case- The bench consisted of seven judges out of which three had dissented pleading that the criteria for identifying OBC had to be based on economic status and not on occupational caste. The dissenting judges were Justices Kuldip Singh, R.M. Sahai and Thommen. No political party moved the apex court for review for fear of losing its vote-bank ! But it is never too late to challenge this perverse judgment which has mentally partitioned the country. WHY UPA & even opposition was in a hurry to follow 1931 census even though it was done during the British period? Answer is loot of quota ans caste banks!
#________________________

Congress surprised over SC quota order
Press Trust of India
Posted online: Thursday, March 29, 2007 at 2030 hours IST
New Delhi, March 29: Congress said it was surprised over the Supreme Court stay on the law providing for OBC quotas in educational institutions and suggested government seeking judicial review and an all party meeting to decide a strategy.

"It is very surprising that the basis on which OBC job reservations were given by the Central government and upheld by the Supreme Court has been struck down by the Supreme Court today," AICC general secretary Digvijay Singh said.

He said the apex Court had upheld earlier job reservations for backward classes well aware that no caste-based census had taken place in the country since 1931.

Asked about the possible options to find a way out of the situation, Singh said government could go in for judicial review of the interim order or call for an all party meeting and take a political decision on the matter.
#___________________________

The pro-muslim congiwalas are trying to side step even the apex court - the top legal body !!!!!!!!

Here ares ome of the best quotes relevant for this blog-
#______________________#______________________

"Behind all the the arguments and scathing attacks one motivation stands out prominent. Pro creamy layer activists wants to perpetuate caste system. In the process they have started ... demanding exclusive rights.
 
This brings out some fundamental question that hindus of every caste must  answer. Do they want to identify themselves as brahmin, dalits, lingayats, gujjars, vannyars etc or simply as hindus? Do they find it a moral responsibility to let go their reservation right once they have taken sufficient advantage of it? Do they want to perpetuate caste system by subscribing to a "caste -based" reservation?"
#______________________#______________________
" The OBC component along with other reserved categories have come to fill 94 % of the total seats offered. This also includes such of those from the OBC category who earned their seats by merit.This by itself is not a bad proposition. The other way of looking at the problem is that after availing priveleged treatment up to 69 % they have come to gain another 25 % from open competition leaving only 6 % for the so called forward classes to fill in. If this is justified in democratic country then all your talk of equity and an egalitarian society in the making, is ridiculous.The very concept of proportional representation is a feudal concept, as it will result in perpetuation of the class and caste system as these castes that are enjoying will, at no time give up their privelege on one pretext or the other and being a majority in parliament,will block any bill that proposes the distribution of opportunity with due regard to competing merit. As Aditi said that merit and equity are competing principles and Marxism is bound to distribute poverty than enable merit contribute to over coming an impoverished nation. While deciding the case the learned judges of the Supreme court, in the obiter dicta observed "that the number of castes getting in to the band - wagon of backwardness had been progressively increasing over the past 50 years" and this is bound to derail the entire system. As I had already stated,let the reservation be implemented as directed by the Supreme Court  subject to periodic revision of the list and deletion of those beneficieries who have reaped the gains. So that at least our future generation will be born in a free India whose cause of birth will not deny them equality of opportunity. "[Krishnan Bala]
#______________________#______________________

My poser is- why indulge in reverse discrmination? Why harm us for the supposed discrimination of dalits for whom the beastly MOGULS and savage BRITS, criminal congiwalas did nothing all these 900+60 years?! 

We were rich then before colonialism and so even the dalits had plenty to eat!  After colonial looting then and neo-colonial plundering now, our small saffron roti is being robbed by non-saffron dalit xians and dalit muslims who are supposed to be poor - though by cunning exploitation by their own fellow islamic upper caste ashrafs and upper caste xian crooks!

OBCs are the rich yadavs - the likes of lallu of bimaru Bihar and mulayam of UP !!!

SOMEONE SAID IT WELL WHEN HE WROTE:=
"........Which is why they need to stop getting special treatment. because on one hand they want to be singled out as special and have their own laws apply to them, and then on the other hand if they are asked to stop extreme behaviours then they claim to be victimized.

the extremism is getting too much out of hand, only a few islamists nowadays believe in being liberal, most want to throw their weight around

whatever the cost, it needs to be stopped. otherwise kolkata might just turn into another war-zone without us even realising when....."

One more piece of evidence how Hindu money is being drained out to fatten filthy rich savage islamic COMMUNALISTS:=
///////////////Exclusive quota for minorities in TN
Chennai, April 5: In the midst of a raging controversy over the Supreme Court's order staying the 27 per cent reservation for OBC students in the elite educational institutions, the Tamil Nadu government today announced an "exclusive reservation" for Christians and Muslims in government services and educational institutions........///////////

Even the rich pakki fascists refused to take Bihari muslims left stranded in bangiland!!?  Why should you carry the islamic burden left dumed on you ever since 1947??!  Now that burden has increased form 9% in 1947 to more than 17% now with mullahs opposed to birth control. much like the xians..esp-ly the catholics...In India which is indeed a mogulistan, family planning is practiced mostly by secular Hindus  that too by the Upper Caste ones.

The mullahs and pastors preach against such population control playing number games.  That is why you see the muslim populaiton has increased from 9% in 1947 to 17% now. Among the xians, the catholics are very opposed to any form of birth control - external control from papal 'fatwa' of the vatican!!..!

We must realize what we have is pseudo democracy and similarly p-secularism. Voting rights for muslims was a bg mistake that has led to vote bank politics.  Did you read about the riots in Kolkotta abt evicting Nasreen I wrote in my last comment?

Let me make it clear this way...
The majority Hindus are not ruling now b/c  religious minorities have cornered the  power.
as they are having excessive privileges - colonial communal power - way beyond 1947; this makes no sense at alll.

The majority Hindus need protection as they are the victims of colonial communal criminals and their {job quota and reservation and other sorts of} robbery, rapes and riots.

I.e. They now rob crores for jobs and reservations as well.  For whom?  For the very lazy savage bums who have been savagely rioting at the most trivial of pretexts such as:
** hanging of Saddam Hussain in far away Iraq;
** cartoons drawn in distant Denmark;
** foul remarks of a filthy xian called Rev. Jerry Falwell; etc

Read about the death and devastation in the south which has been normally free of savage islamic communalists:=////////////"Property worth Rs 14 crore was damaged in blasts
2 Aug 2007, 0433 hrs IST,T S SREENIVASA RAGHAVAN,TNN
COIMBATORE: S A Basha, the founder of Al-Umma, his son Siddique Ali, Mohammed Ansari, the group’s general secretary, and the other convicts were found guilty of hatching a criminal conspiracy to trigger a series of explosions here on February 14, 1998, and to create enmity between Hindus and Muslims. The court pronounced 153 accused guilty of the dastardly act under various sections of IPC, Explosives and Arms Acts and Tamil Nadu Property (Prevention of Damages and Loss) Act 1992. Property worth Rs 14 crore was damaged in the blasts that numbed the textile town."////////////////


The long criminal history of Indian muslims has further documentation against it to this very day:= ////////////Thursday, Nov 22, 2007 Buddhadeb blames Minority Forum leadership
Special Correspondent
KOLKATA: West Bengal Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee has blamed the “irresponsible” leadership of the All- India Minority Forum for Wednesday’s violence in parts of the city.

Appealing to the people to help maintain peace, he said the police had shown restraint in the face of attacks on them and the Army had to be called in to prevent the situation from getting out of hand. It  was brought under control in the evening, he said./////////////////////

AGAIN IN W BENGAL:=
////////////Protests against grant of visa to Taslima; It is unfortunate and has tarnished the city’s
name: Buddhadeb
OUT OF HARM’S WAY: Terror-struck student Sneha Tripathi, who was caught unawares in mob violence on Wednesday, is whisked off to safety by police in Topsia area of Kolkata. The child was returning home from school. An Army patrol passes burning cars near Park Circus (right).

KOLKATA: The Army, at the instance of the West Bengal government, moved into the capital on Wednesday to  quell disturbances in the central areas, where demonstrators, seeking cancellation of visa for the controversial Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen, turned violent.
Their agitation was in response to a call by the All-India Minority Forum (AIMF) to set up roadblocks.

It was also in protest against the recent developments in Nandigram. Mobs attacked over 20 vehicles, including state buses, and set some on fire. They blocked roads and hurled bricks and missiles at the police and personnel of the Rapid Action Force. Some protesters,
carrying swords, charged at the securitymen.

School-children spent restless hours in their buses which were stranded due to traffic disruptions. Two offices of the CPI(M), and journalists also came under attack.
Describing the turn of events as “unfortunate,” Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee said the violence had “tarnished the name of the city.”/////////////////

Both 1857 and 1947, witnessed lacs of Hindu and Sikh people losing their lives, like during this riot in-between those years:=

///////"The major anti-Hindu riots occurred in Kohat in NWFP, India in 1924. In three days (September 9 -11) of riots over 155 Hindus and Sikhs were killed.
 Entire population of Hindus and Sikhs living there had to flee for life . Gandhiji undertook 21 days fast for Hindu-Muslim unity in October 1924."//////////

where a major act of ethnic cleansing {out of communal greed and xenophobic hate}  took place as documented above. Our friend Gandhi was not able to do anything to prevent such atrocities or get compensaiton for the HIndu/Sikh victims!!!  No HIndu or Sikh will ever forget or forgive the savagery of islamic neighbors that every punjabi refugee was justifiably fearing about !!!!!!  It takes the persona of Mr Patel or Mr Modi to tame the barbaric islamic beasts, mind you !!!

Unless and until you boycott the business of anti-Indians and vote out the criminal congi-walas, you may not get any relief nor the economic stability that the chinks enjoy....